Further explanations for my comment answer to a YouTube renunciation of Adventist on theological grounds of the Investigative Judgment

“And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.” (Isa. 29:11,12).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqRNfrqegNs

The [Daniel 8:14] 2,300 year period was not an answer to “How long did the abomination of desolation do its work? [or] For how long did the abomination of desolation continue?” But, the question was, “How long was the vision of the abomination of desolation?” That vision began long before the desolation of the heavenly sanctuary, the persecution of the saints and blaspheming of the heavenly angels, and the casting down of the atoning crucifixion of Christ, all of which occurred during the Dark Ages by the little horn power. The vision began during the Persian Empire, which connects with the reign of Artaxerxes when he funded the restart of the Jewish economy and government in 457 BC.

The little horn came out of—not one of the four horns of the he-goat—but it came out of one of the four winds. In light of the previous two prophecies, Rome would be the empire that followed the Grecian he-goat, and it also had a little horn element in the Daniel 7 prophecy. Therefore, the greatest blasphemy against God and His heavenly sanctuary occurred [by] the papacy [during] the Dark Ages. And Revelation 13:1-7 and Daniel 11:21-45 agree with the Daniel 8:10-14, 23-25 [vision].

The cleansing, as in restoring, the heavenly sanctuary from the defiling by the little horn, would consist of not only clearing all sins from the throne of God, but also a special work of purification on earth. That special work of purification must necessarily require the cleansing of false doctrines and of clearing up the high standard for sanctification by faith. Together, the work of cleansing of heaven[ly] and earth[ly] temples would begin in 1844 and continue until the saints are sealed and sins [no] longer pollute the heavenly sanctuary. When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His children then He will come and claim [them] as His own.

Regarding His entrance into the heavenly sanctuary upon His ascension, Hebrews 9 shows that the skene is what He entered, as the Holiest of all because the heavenly temple is holier than the earthly. And by design He must enter the Holy Place first before entering the Most Holy Place. There were three veils. He entered within the veil into the skene in 31 AD, and 1813 years later the hagia hagion.

Blessings, brother.

After I sent the comment, I thought I should have ended with “Godspeed, brother.” Thunder is still my brother despite his renunciation of the Advent movement. I believe that he knows not what he is doing.

I don’t know if my comment did justice to our doctrine on the Daniel 8:14 question, but I have looked as closely as I could with my non-seminary thinking cap. A few years back, I studied Hebrews 6 through 10 with some Adventist friends, and two verses that really hung me up were Hebrews 9:7, 8. At first it sounded like Dr. Desmond Ford and all the Evangelicals were right.

“But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing.” (Heb. 9:7,8).

Simply put, verse 8 in the King James Version says that the Holy Ghost, for 1,500 years, used the earthly temple to signify the way for faith in God’s pardon. The heavenly tabernacle was not manifest while the earthly was in operation as the only means God saw fit to lead the Egypt-tainted, earthy-minded Israelites to understand heavenly things. Heavenly abstractions would have either lost their faculty of faith altogether, or worse, it might have aided Satan in giving them something to buttress their love of Egyptian occultism, sending them forever into the astral planes. Ancient Israel needed to be grounded to the earth with an earthly throne of God, from which their God ruled and lived.

So, verse 8 was simply saying that the “holiest of all” was the heavenly tabernacle, being that it was holier than all the holiest of holy things and holy places on earth. His heavenly home was also holiest of all, being that the most holy Father dwelled there, “a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building [the earthly tabernacle]” (Heb. 9:11), “the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Heb. 8:2). The heavenly tabernacle wasn’t revealed or to be understood while Israel had a veil over their hearts and minds. Later to a predestinated generation the heavenly tabernacle would be revealed as the true way to redemption because they would believe Jesus as the Messiah, and the veil would then be taken off their hearts and minds.

All in all, verse 8 says nothing about the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. It says not a word that Jesus bypassed or passed through the first compartment of the heavenly sanctuary and entered directly into the second compartment.

The thing that stumped me for a while was my assumption that verses 7 and 8 were part of the same sentence or same thought, and that verse 8 was referring to verse 7 only. In other words, it seemed that verse 8 was amplifying only verse 7. I turned my Bible 90° this way and 90° that way, and 180° upside down; and I even shook my Bible to see if some print or some ideas might have had fallen into the binding, and maybe would drop out. Later I understood that verse 8 referred to all the previous verses 1-7, which cleared up my confusion.

The true meaning of verse 8 makes more sense when we see the Koine Greek for “holiest of all” and “tabernacle” in that verse. The “holiest of all”, as verse 8 didn’t use the words,“hagia hagion”, was not referring to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary. So, Christ did not enter through the third veil as our way to salvation immediately upon His ascension. And neither did the revelation of the Most Holy Place of the heavenly tabernacle occur upon the ending of the earthly tabernacle, since “hagia” “holy [places]” was the Hebrews 9:8 destination of Christ in question, not “hagia hagion” “the Most Holy”.

If that had been the case the writer of Hebrews (WoH) would have written “hagia hagion” in verse 8 for “holiest of all” as he had in verse 3. Instead WoH wrote “hagia”, meaning, Holy Place or holy places. Verse 8 was relating the human ignorance of the hagia Holy places of the heavenly sanctuary “wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread” (Heb. 9:2) while the earthly sanctuary, skēnē (the building/tent) was in operation.

That is all that verse 8 is saying. It does not tell us that Jesus went directly into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary, but simply that the way into the heavenly sanctuary was now made known to be accessible. This means that Hebrews 9:8 says that Jesus entered the heavenly building. That is all that Hebrews 9:8 is saying.

I have copy/pasted KJV Hebrews 9:1-3,6-8 with Strong’s numbers from e-Sword®. Then I have broken the verses down further in a table to bring out the Koine Greek words for sanctuary locations where Jesus might have ascended to:

Heb 9:1  Then^G3767 verily^G3303 the^G3588 first^G4413 covenant had^G2192 also^G2532 ordinances^G1345 of divine service,^G2999 and^G5037 a worldly^G2886 sanctuary^G39.

Heb 9:2  For^G1063 there was a 1)tabernacle^G4633 [whole tent skēnē] made;^G2680 the^G3588 first,^G4413 wherein^{G1722 G3739} was the^{(G5037 G3739)} candlestick,^G3087 and^G2532 the^G3588 table,^G5132 and^G2532 the^G3588 shewbread;^{G4286 G740} which^G3748 is called^G3004 2)the sanctuary^G39 [Holy Place hagia].

Heb 9:3  And^G1161 after^G3326 the^G3588 3)second^G1208 veil,^G2665 the tabernacle^G4633 [inner room of sanctuary skēnē] which is called^G3004 the 4)Holiest of all^{G39 G39} [hagia hagion Most Holy Place];…

Heb 9:6  Now^G1161 when these things^G5130 were thus^G3779 ordained,^G2680 the^G3588 priests^G2409 went^G1524 always^G1275 into^G1519(G3303) the^G3588 5)first^G4413 tabernacle,^G4633 [Holy Place, skēnē] accomplishing^G2005 the^G3588 service^G2999 of God.

Heb 9:7  But^G1161 into^G1519 the^G3588 second^G1208 went the^G3588 high priest^G749 alone^G3441 once^G530 every year,^G1763 not^G3756 without^G5565 blood,^G129 which^G3739 he offered^G4374 for^G5228 himself,^G1438 and^G2532 for the^G3588 errors^G51 of the^G3588 people:^G2992

Heb 9:8  The^G3588 Holy^G40 Ghost^G4151 this^G5124 signifying,^G1213 that the^G3588 way^G3598 into the^G3588 6)holiest of all^G39 [Holy Place hagia] was not yet^G3380 made manifest,^G5319 while as the^G3588 7)first^G4413 tabernacle^G4633 [whole tent skēnē] was^G2192 yet^G2089 standing:^G4714

1)whole tent	2) called the Holy	3) inner room of sanctuary	4) called the Most Holy	5) Holy Place,	6)Heavenly sanctuary	7)whole tent
skēnē tabernacleG4633	hagia the sanctuary.G39	skēnē secondG1208 veil,G2665 the tabernacleG4633	hagia hagion Holiest of allG39  39	skēnē firstG4413 tabernacle G4633	hagia holiest of allG39	skēnē firstG4413 tabernacleG4633

What is the big picture of this issue? What are the little pictures that make up the bigger picture?

Maybe I’m all wrong, but I believe that verse 8 has created a lot of unnecessary confusion. However, in a good way it also was the cause of a lot of truly necessary real revisiting of Hebrews 9. The Lord sends controversies and heresies to wake us up to Bible study, so that our minds can Tango with His.

“The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what.” Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 39.

With regard to the heavenly sanctuary, other than Hebrews 9:3 everything else throughout the book of Hebrews speaks of only “hagia”, the heavenly Holy Place, or heavenly Holy places, which refers to the whole sanctuary, “heaven” (Heb. 9:24). Nowhere else in the entire book speaks of “hagia hagion”, the actual heavenly Most Holy Place of the holiest, remotest haven for Jehovah the Father, holy and reverend is His name.

For good reason, Adventism has historically used the earthly tabernacle for a model of Christ’s three ministries. To begin each ministry He entered through a veil.

The first veil gave entrance to the earthly courtyard. Christ’s first ministry since the beginning of time and throughout the Old Testament was typified by the court of the earthly tabernacle. There the altar of burnt offering was the centerpiece, sitting perfectly at the diagonally crossed center of the courtyard. That altar represented Christ’s work as Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. In all of His discipline upon the human race, specifically as illustrated through Israel, His heavenly ministry for humanity has involved His mediatorial work of mercy as much as His punishing judgments. “In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the Angel of His presence saved them: in His love and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old.” (Isa. 63:9).

Later, upon His ascension after accomplishing the provision for redeeming our fallen race, to enter the sanctuary Christ must pass through the second veil, which WoH somewhat alludes to being the first veil. Therefore, following the model given to Moses, Christ’s second ministry would necessarily be in the Holy Place, since the only way into the sanctuary was through the veil of the Holy Place. There was no way to get into the Most Holy Place via the third veil without first going through the second veil and the Holy Place. And a great work, involving His own blood, must take place first in the Holy Place. Thus, we must follow the pattern established by the earthly temple economy. In that beautifully clear model, which served “unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith He, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.” (Heb. 8:5).

The actual second veil, which opened to the sanctuary building, was the first veil ever mentioned in the book of Hebrews. It was to enter through this actual second veil of the whole heavenly sanctuary complex, and specifically into the Holy Place of the sanctuary, that was so great a consolation. This is because Jesus was entering “heaven” (Heb. 9:24) in glorified human flesh to appear directly before God for us, not into an earthly temple that exuded everything carnal and of human construction.

“Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.” (Heb. 6:19,20).

Upon ascension Jesus wasn’t made a High Priest forever as in one who would officiate in Aaron’s Judgment Day typical Day of Atonement. Aaron’s Day of Atonement work was a short closure to spiritually transform and renew the sanctuary by ceremonially sweeping it clean of all the filthiness of the flesh brought in throughout the year. The Day of Atonement was a very extraordinary work compared to the normal, daily, ordinary work of reconciliation, pardon, and salvation. But, the new work of our High Priest was that of the ordinary work of reconciliation, pardon, and salvation.

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Heb. 8:10-13).

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1Jn. 2:1,2).

“For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1Tim. 2:5,6).

So, Christ’s work was that of the priests during the annual year to advocate for fallen, weakened man; and “in due time” a change would come to Christ’s mediation. What change would come? It would be His final closure of redemption would come by accomplishing the antitypical Day of Atonement phase of His heavenly ministry, which would result in His children’s characters testifying of His exalted character in the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, we have had a heavenly High Priest over all earthly high priests. He has been touched with the feelings of our infirmities, unlike the earthly high priests who like hard-hearted Eli couldn’t read the hearts of His people or sympathize with them. But Jesus is High Priest because He poured out His soul unto death. He satisfied the Father and His Law by a perfect self-sacrifice, ad therefore God had highly exalted His only begotten Son, the new High Priest-King. He is our heavenly Priest performing in the heavenly Holy Place, holiest of all, for the ministration of His propitiation by His own blood. “By His own blood He entered in once into the hagia holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us” (Heb. 9:12), rather than an earthly priest entering an earthly holy place with bull’s blood for a temporary redemption. However, the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary would be yet future.

Jesus was typified by priest Eleazar who received the calling of his father’s high priesthood immediately before slaying the great red heifer before his face, representing the Son of God as greatest Sacrifice, of all other sacrifices utmost thoroughly and completely devoured by the flames before His Father’s face, and brought to ashes, alone which made Jesus an all-sufficient High Priest for the utmost guilty sinner. But, this ceremony was not in order to begin cleansing the sanctuary in the Most Holy. It was for cleansing the guiltiest and most shameful sinner of all his defilement, sanctified in the court and blood sprinkled “directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times” (Num. 19:4). 

His eternal death “dedicated…the patterns of things in the heavens” (Heb. 9:18,23). His death was the inauguration of a new and living redemption from sin that would not be completed until the antitypical Day of Atonement, “in due time”.

Therefore Jesus didn’t enter directly into the Most Holy Place.

I confess that I didn’t exegete any of this. I am not a theologian. I’ve never had a theological education. But the gospel should be so simple that children can understand it. “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast Thou ordained strength because of Thine enemies, that Thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.” (Ps. 8:2).

“I have more understanding than all my teachers: for Thy testimonies are my meditation.

I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Thy precepts.” (Ps. 119:99,100).

“Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

For with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to this people.” (Isa. 28:9-11).

“And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.” (Jer. 23:36).

“For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?” (1Cor. 1:19,20).

“Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.” (Isa. 29:14).

“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are.” (1Cor. 1:27,28).

“How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made He it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?” (Jer. 8:8,9).